Buybacks - good, bad or ugly?

[higgybrew]

OK - I admit I bought back yesterday. I was on the fence about it due to points/no points etc. Wound up going to the semis which is good. But I did beat some cars that didn't buy back in which is bad. And the ugly - well it was kind of disorganized but it was the first time we had them. It's funny - one Mopar racer was telling me Saturday that we should boycott buybacks and then he was 2nd in line to buyback in! My head said it's wrong but every other part of me just wanted to race. LOVE the new BTE converter! I picked up 2.5 tenths and 3-4 mph with it.

[CCRT]

Mark--

How much was it to Buy Back in?

[DLeBlanc]

From NED.com

Buy Back Fees:

Top Eliminator $28

Modified Eliminator $25

Street Eliminator $18

The Buy Back entry fee will not count toward that day's purse. $5 of the Buy Back entry fee per race vehicle competing in eliminations on points days will be put in a points fund for its particular class and distributed at the New England Dragway Banquet and Awards presentation.

[PRstreet316X]

Hello People.

I almoste bought back in my self but then I thought to my self I refuse to lower my self to that level. No offence Higgy. No one in my division (Street E.T.) bought back on Sunday. I was really suprised to see anyone use the buy backs especially Mr. Higgy. Shame all who used them.


Joey H. Street #316X


www.pureracing.20fr.com.20fr.com

[tnthub]

Buy Backs have no place in a points series. That said, I believe a gamblers race that any of the first round losers could participate in would work as an alternative. Since there are no more Juniors on Sunday we appear to have the time to do this. This allows people who go out in the first round an opportunity to race, and yet retain the integrity of the points championship at the same time.

The entire dynamic of the points series is compromised when a person can buy back and then try and line up with particular racers with nothing to lose in terms of points.

It isn't that buy backs are not wanted. I sure could have used a few "mulligans" myself last season, but they do not belong in a points series that wants to maintain a professional image.

Can you buy back in a swim meet? A track meet? Can you buy back a lap at a NASCAR race? Of course not. I really do not like to see the integrity of a championship undermined by buybacks.

I understand the track can make more money this way, but I see buy backs as an attempt to "get it on both ends".

Eliminations is called just that because if you lose you are eliminated. That is what racing is all about. Just have a gamblers race starting after round one and be done with the controversy.

[speedphreake]

Ted,

Well said, I agree totally. I went out first round in street and mod, didn't think twice about buying back. I like the idea of the gamblers race. Maybe we should bring this up with NED and try and change it.

Jeff
street- nx13
mod-1113

[higgybrew]

Joey H. - which is it? No offense or shame on me? Can't be both. I was up in the tower Saturday and mentioned that the part I didn't like about the buybacks is that it was decided without ANY input from the racers! I asked Peter Grier if they asked him what he thought being on the Rules Advisory Committee and he said NO. I will wear the scarlet letter(s) for buying back but until there is a better alternative (gamblers) I will continue to use it. Ted, with the great job you did about the line-lock issue I nominate you to get it done. ;)

[hotrod7043]

well it seems as only to fatten the wallett of the track, 5.00 towards your year ends points fund, weres the other 20.00 goin .well at most other tracks in goes right into the daily purse and thats what the intent of them are. so why buyback hope you get more at the end of the year? well you can say iwanna shot at goin more rnds, well they dont count for Summit points, but if you wanna race you wanna race.

[tnthub]

I am willing to wager that there were increases in the costs pertaining to insurance this season. I also would not be suprised if some of the outsourced costs (such as ambulance services) were also increased.

I don't have any problem with NED turning a profit. I want them to profit and help promote the track and the sport.

I was there Friday night and the place was absolutely packed with cars and... Guess what... The stands were full of spectators!

I'm guessing that the bracket program does not pull in the revenue of the Friday night crowd and I'm guessing that the administrative costs are higher for the bracket program, and I'm guessing the insurance costs are higher for the bracket program as some types of insurance costs jump when there is a payout. So, in short, my guess is that the margins for the track are less on points days and the additional revenue from the buybacks allows the track to keep the entry fees down for the points racers.

This is entirely conjecture on my part and I have zero facts to back any of it up.

I think that our existing racers representatives are the proper people to approach the track with any proposed changes to the existing structure. I would be willing to offer them any feedback or input they requested, but they are our elected representatives and believe we should make use of them as we elected them to the position. I am not saying I wouldn't approach the track, but I think we owe our elected people the respect and confidence of the position.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[hotrod7043]

hiigy you been around long enough to know this track never asks the racers what they think, come on know and as far as turning a profit lookat the concession stand prices.

[mod313]

Higgy you racing tramp! :D
Yes I went out first round and yes car went on trailer. I don't agree with the buybacks and will not use them.
A gamblers race would absolutely be a great alternative.

[Belvedere65]

Everyone knows my opinion of buybacks in a points race! They don't belong!

A gamblers race won't give the track the revenue that the current buyback will.

BUYBACKS S_ _ K!

[hotrod7043]

CCRT WHO WAS IN THE FINAL OF MOD YESTERDAY, NOT CHEVROLETS.

[bradsc1954]

A few guys have said that they don't like buy backs because they can mess up points. Simple solution. Seeing how the money doesn't go back into the purse, Buy backs should earn points like they do in the Bill Mitchell series at the Great Bracket Racing Track Atco.

The run the buy back together then insert them into the second round.

Brad

[higgybrew]

OK OK - no more joking. I think what we should propose for next year is a gamblers race where the entry fee is split between the track and the gamblers. Besides - when you enter the gamblers race is it for the money or to keep racing? What would be the fee? $20? $30? And as far as having our elected officers negotiate with the track - Peter Grier told me that they are on the "rules advisory committee" and had no input at all concerning buybacks. I think we can work out a reasonable solution for next year - too late for this year. Don't be afraid to express your opinion to the track management - we are the customers! (on Sunday anyway).

[LEORACING]

I agree with Brad!

[cudaman1896]

that is what they do at a lot of ihra tracks down here with the buy backs brad, that way no one complains, oh buy the way , im glad we werent the only one that, that happen to..... if ya know what i mean

[PRstreet316X]

Hello Higgy. Now that I think of it and sense you asked it is actually SHAME ON YOU.:p

Joey H. Street #316X

www.pureracing.20fr.com.20fr.com

[hotrod7043]

Originally posted by cudaman1896
that is what they do at a lot of ihra tracks down here with the buy backs brad, that way no one complains, oh buy the way , im glad we werent the only one that, that happen to..... if ya know what i mean Joel doesnt the buyback money usualy go to the purse down there?

[cudaman1896]

yes it all goes back to the racers purse, its not uncommon for the tracks to raise the purse if there are a lot of cars in the program for the night

[hotrod7043]

thats what i figured joel, as you know not here, hows the cuda goin? dad runnin the roadster?

[cudaman1896]

the cuda is running great 11.60's in 1800 ft of air should run 11.50's at sea level . we are getting there with the roadster should be ready by the 2 five days races down here

[CCRT]

Originally posted by higgybrew
I think what we should propose for next year is a gamblers race where the entry fee is split between the track and the gamblers. Besides - when you enter the gamblers race is it for the money or to keep racing? What would be the fee? $20? $30?

Maybe, if they adopt the gambler's race in 2003 it would be better to have a Box and No-Box class. I think it would attract more racers. I for one would be hesitant to spend an ADDITIONAL $30 to run against a box car/rail

Just my .02

[imacarfan2]

I personally don't like buy backs. Eliminations are just that. I went out in the first round last Sunday. I knew I could buy back in, but packed up and went home anyway. I'm in it for the challange of the points series. If I lose, I lose. But then again, I can run on Wednesday and Friday nights as well when I need to get my fix. :)

I also agree about the food prices. $3.50 is a bit much for a cheese burger. Not that it's probably any diffrent at any other track. And they are pretty yummy... :D

Brian
-the lonely AMC racer (in street, anyway)-

[hotrod7043]

what box cars scare the ccrt machine?

[CCRT]

Just an Idea....

Instead of BuyBacks in 2003

Have a gamblers race based on the "Best Package" concept. No Red Lights, No Breakouts. (no more losing for pushing the tree with a .499 or breaking out by .001) No more sandbagging. No more accidents caused by racers mashing the brake in the stripe. The cars will run it out the back door. Best Driver/Tuner gets the wins.

Throw in a .500 Pro tree and I think you have some interesting racing.

Just my .02

[hotrod7043]

maybe for top et cars with transbrakes with .500 tree be fair to footbrakers,gamblers no/box instead of buybacks track gets only
5.00 per car. thats the way to doit put you wont see that at Ne
Dragway they are already getin the whole thing of the buyback money. im in favor of worse redlight rule in case of dual redlights.

[Belvedere65]

For you points members in Mod-ET that hate buybacks.

If you lose first rnd, buyback and try to take one other out.

If you win, put it on the trailer.

That leaves one less to interfere with the points system.

Worked in my case!!!!!!!!!



:D :cool: :p

[higgybrew]

I thought I saw the anti-banana car with BB on the window! I think the heat got to me! "Lucky" Higgy broke his distributor on the way up to 1st round. :( Congrats to the banana cars runnerup finish! Good race!

[hotrod7043]

another chebby part, let you down higgy

[LEORACING]

I think buybacks should get points like the bill mitchell series. I want to race as much as I can and going out first round stinks. I don't want to wait all week to go to the track to make 3 runs down it!

Michele

[CCRT]

Thanks Mark--


It was great to be in the finals:)

[TOP38]

Michele, U DON"T GET POINTS WHEN U BUYBACK AT THE BILL MITCHEL RACES, MAYBE IF U SHOWED UP TO ONE U'D KNOW THAT!LOLOLOL

Mr. Bill
Although I don't agree w/your buyback philosphy, why didn't you just staged third round and lose, you would have recieved 3rd round $$$'s and not effected the points race ?????? Sounds like the tomatoes are rotting!!!!!!!!!:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Belvedere65]

"Why didn't you just stage third round and lose"

Thank you Mr. Al!

I've been sitting here all day waiting for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You never disappoint me, Ole Buddy!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

To many things could happen, one being the third round car couldn't make the call.

The point of no buybacks being made, was more important than the $27.00 recieved!!!! :p

What a great country, we can agree to disagree! ;)

[TOP38]

Mr Bill ,

Now your killing me,,,

If the third round car couldn't make the call, he or she loses no matter who is in the other lane!!!!!!!!!! So the BUYBACK racer would have NO effect on the yearly points race....

As far as spending your hard earned dollars on BB's and not showing up for third round, well since their your dollars you can do as you like w/them...

:p :p :p :p :p :p

[Belvedere65]

Sooner or later, the buyback racer has a definite effect on the yearly points race.......

If you can't see that, switch brands, because what your on now isn't working!
"As far as spending your hard earned dollars on BB's and not showing up for third round, well since their your dollars you can do as you like w/them..."

QUOTE: " And I do!"

[hotrod7043]

Biil your wastin your time, the alll got that french disease "Chevrotoilet" so why even waste your breath just enjoy all the singles when paired with one.

[TOP38]

Mr Bill,

The heat must be getting to you,,,,, we are not talking about the buyback racers,, just you!!!
Please try and stay out of the hot sun...:D :D

[Belvedere65]

"So the BUYBACK racer would have NO effect on the yearly points race..."

That doesn't say Mr. Bill

That SAYS, "the BUYBACK racer"

You better put a top on that DP car of yours

Because the sun has fried your think tank!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[KyleB264]

I'l admit, at the beginning of the season, I said I would never buyback. Then in the the second points day of the season, I bought back. It does somewhat add a sense of comfort that you kinda can get a second chance in a way.

[CCRT]

BUYBACK KING

[MikeSawyer]

... and I thought *I* had way too much time on my hands...

Later!
................. Mike

[Tom Kerr]

Hi everyone. I see a lot of good ideas here. I'm for the track and racers to profit someway. I have thought many times after i lose in the first round, in fact thats my story for this season. I just couldn't buy back in, reason is i never have before so why start now, my opion. I do like the idea of a gambles race and a 50/50 split, i would do that and i hope a lot of other fist round losers would too. Should we have a drivers meeting someday like the 2 points days July 27th, 28th??? Should we bring it to the attention of the steering commitee?? Should we talk to the track first?? How does one go about this the correct way, i don't want to offend or step on anyones toes, things should be done in the proper order,, wow did i say that.. I wonder what they did to me on that operating table in March LOL Have fun everyone and be safe........... Tommy Kerr:cool:

[hotrod7043]

Tom drivers meeting good luck, suggest to track get real only thing ya can do is buyback if you wanna race.

[tnthub]

Tom, I think that is a great idea. I wouldn't worry about stepping on toes to get it started and I would recommend placing the focus on next season as we already know the rules for this year. You could email the class reps to get started, as well as the track management, and simply ask for direction with the process. This would establish a reasonable and agreeable tone for all people involved. Based on your feedback, you could then determine the next step. If you are willing to quarterback this effort I will offer to help but I have no desire to be the point man (I'm still tired from the STreet ET line lock battle in the off season). :)